It is our latest guest-branded episode of Business LO, with host Michelle O'Dell, along with the esteemed Attorney Anastasia Yu Meisner, as she delves into the critical topic of estate planning, specifically focusing on debunking five prevalent myths that often lead to misunderstandings and overlooked preparations. These myths include: "If I pass without a will, the government gets everything," "A Will avoids probate," "I'm not rich, I don't need to think about estate tax," "Estate Planning is for the wealthy," and "I made my estate plan, I don't need to think about it again." This concise yet comprehensive discussion aims to provide clarity and empower listeners with accurate information.
In addition, this conversation showcases Anastasia's profound dedication to her clients and her unwavering commitment to guiding them through the complexities of securing their financial affairs. Her expertise shines through as she helps demystify a subject many find daunting.
Please note that this conversation is for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice.
Anastasia Yu Meisner is an attorney in Lake Oswego with over 25 years of experience. She provides exceptional legal counsel and advice, specializing in estate planning, administration, and mediation. In her spare time, she serves as a pro tem judge for the Washington County Circuit Court. She is a board member of the Lake Oswego Chamber of Commerce, the Oregon Minority Lawyers Association, the OPB Planned Giving Advisory Committee, and the Oregon Women Lawyers Foundation. She also co-authored the only book on estate planning in Oregon with her colleague Valerie Sasaki. She has been recognized as an Estate Planning Super Lawyer, a distinction received by fewer than a dozen Oregon estate planners annually.
Find all Anastasia Yu Meisner’s information on her website, AY Meisner
Estate Planning
Wills and Trusts
Powers of Attorney
Gifting and Wealth Preservation
Estate Administration
Probate and Estate
Trust Administration
Estate Mediation
Probate and Trust Disputes
Protected Proceedings
Fiduciary Litigation
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LIZ HARTMAN:: [00:00:00] This is Business Lo, a podcast by the Lake Oswego Chamber of Commerce, which connects, educates, advocates, and champions our business community. We have nearly 500 members from international corporations to home-based businesses, and we serve them all. Each episode of Business LO gives insider information to the local business community and the neighbors who support them.
LIZ HARTMAN:: And now let's talk Business Lo.
MICHELLE ODELL:: It's a bonus guest-branded Business LO episode with attorney Anastasia Meisner. We are gonna be discussing an important and apparently myth-filled topic of estate planning and as good old Benny Franklin said, nothing is certain except for death and taxes and proper estate planning helps quell the inevitable anxiety surrounding both.
MICHELLE ODELL:: Let me tell you a little bit about Anastasia Yu Meisner. She's an attorney based here in Lake Oswego for over 25 years. She [00:01:00] provides. Exceptional legal counsel and advice with personalized service. Her focuses are estate planning, administration, and mediation in her spare time. She is also a pro tem judge for the Washington County Circuit Court Board member of the Lake Oswego Chamber of Commerce, the Oregon Minority Lawyers Association, the OPB Planned Giving Advisory Committee.
MICHELLE ODELL:: And the Oregon Women Lawyers Foundation, but wait, there's more. Along with her friend and attorney colleague, Valerie Susaki. She co-authored the only book on estate planning in Oregon, and she's been voted by her attorney peers as an estate planning super lawyer. A distinction that less than a dozen Oregon estate planners receive each year.
MICHELLE ODELL:: And as a reminder, this conversation is for informational purposes only. It is not legal [00:02:00] advice, it's a podcast people. Okay? So I'm really excited to talk about the five estate planning myths. Okay, Anastasia, let's bust some myths. This one I've heard many times over the years: if I pass without a will, the government gets everything.
MICHELLE ODELL:: That's a myth.
ANASTASIA YU MEISNER:: Even if we live to 150, we all will pass, but the government likely will not get everything. There is a plan in Oregon for everyone, and we call that the no-plan Plan. Most people don't like the plan that Oregon has for us, and therefore, they want to actually. Have something in writing. They usually will see an attorney.
ANASTASIA YU MEISNER:: But if you don't have something in writing, generally the way Oregon's plan is set out is that if you're married, everything will go to your spouse. And if you're not married and you have children, then everything will be divided equally amongst your children, and that's usually what most people want. If you're married and have children from that [00:03:00] relationship, then everything will go to your spouse.
ANASTASIA YU MEISNER:: That's fine too, because the idea is then once that spouse passes away, everything will go to the children from that common relationship. What happens is when you don't have that type of family situation, then it starts to become a problem for many people. For example, blended families, when somebody has a second marriage, then the State of Oregon flaw says half goes to current spouse and half goes to equally divided amongst children from their first relationship.
ANASTASIA YU MEISNER:: That can be very problematic, especially if, for example, a house is titled just in one spouse's name, and I've seen this happen where the surviving spouse is kicked out of the house because there's not enough assets, and the children from the first relationship forced the fail of the house, which is the terrible thing to have happen or.
ANASTASIA YU MEISNER:: When somebody has no children and are, they're not married, but they have siblings still alive, and they don't want a particular sibling like the brother that they hate, and they [00:04:00] don't want that brother to get anything. The best thing to do in those situations is though the government doesn't get everything.
ANASTASIA YU MEISNER:: It may be that the plan that Oregon has for you is still not the plan that you want.
Speaker 2: Myth number two, A will avoids probate.
Speaker 3: Oh, that is a common misconception. I get that a lot, especially when I have somebody. Usually it's the children who come in, and their parent has passed away, and they want to know about administering their parents' estate.
Speaker 3: And I tell them, oh, well, we've gotta have a probate because they've come in with a will and the children think, wait a second. I thought we don't have to have probate because we have a will, and it's the exact opposite. A will equals probate. A will is just a document that identifies who will administer the estate, the order of how assets are spent.
Speaker 3: For example, expenses are paid first, funeral expenses, taxes, attorney's fees, and then distribution. Who's to [00:05:00] get what items. It does not avoid probate.
Speaker 2: Okay, so what is probate then for our listeners who might not know?
Speaker 3: So probate, and then we could probably talk about how to avoid probate is probate is a court supervised administration of a decedent's estate.
Speaker 3: Some of those words, court supervision, decedent of state. When you hear court supervision think takes a long time when you hear court as well think, need an attorney. Oh, okay. Which also equals costs money.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: Probate takes some time to start from one end the beginning to get to the point of conclusion, which is distribution.
Speaker 3: It does take money, it takes attorney time, which equals money. Can cost more than administering a trust, which I'll talk about in a bit. And it is not the worst thing ever. It's not as, sometimes I will joke the seventh [00:06:00] level of Dantes Inferno. In some ways it is a known process. It's a well-developed body of law in Oregon or fairly well developed.
Speaker 3: Depends on if you're a litigator or not, but takes time and it, it can be. Annoying and cumbersome and just aggravating for clients when there's an alternative. There's various alternatives to avoid probate. One of those alternatives what most people have been told they need, but it's very fact specific and so I don't always advise clients that they need.
Speaker 3: This alternative, but is a vehicle that's commonly used is a revocable trust. You'll hear people talk about, my neighbor said I need AOC revocable trust, or My neighbor has a revocable trust, or they're a nice vehicle and they're used to avoid probate. There are other techniques to avoid probate as well.
Speaker 3: Are assets, we'll have the opportunity to name beneficiaries such as [00:07:00] IRAs and insurance policies. There are assets that are co-owned. For example, spouses will own property together as husband and wife, or there will be non-married folks, brothers, sisters, non-married couples who will own property as tenants by the entirety or own bank accounts jointly.
Speaker 3: There are other ways to, or there are pay on death accounts or transfer on death designations on accounts that are ways to avoid probate.
Speaker 2: Okay, so myth number three. I'm not rich. I don't need to think about estate tax. I.
Speaker 3: Rich is relative, right? Yes. And we're talking about monetary richness. Mm-hmm. I, I think I'm, I'm very rich in my life.
Speaker 3: I have a, I love my family. I enjoy my life, and I, I see the beauty of my life all around me. But from a monetary perspective, rich is relative and in. Oregon Rich is different than what we would say Rich is from a a federal perspective. So let's talk about the worst case scenario from a federal [00:08:00] perspective.
Speaker 3: And this is talking about Rich in terms of the state tax, E-S-T-A-T-E tax, and at the federal level. When I say Rich, and I'm not talking about the ultra rich, we're not talking about a hundred millionaires.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: Right? Or more we're talking about. People with $13,990,000 this year. That type of rich folks with $13,990,000 of net worth at the time they pass away in this year, 2025, would not have to pay federal estate tax.
Speaker 3: That's different than income tax. That's not capital gains tax. Tax that's paid when somebody's estate is more than $13,990,000 in the year 2025. That number may change this year, may stay permanent. We don't know someone who, every dollar over that $13,990,000 is subject to tax at the federal level.
Speaker 3: There's a very thin first million over [00:09:00] that, that's just taxed at 18%. Then it goes up to 40%. Oh, so that's a pretty hefty tax. Yeah. God, it doesn't take much to get to 40%. It takes a while to get to $13,990,000. Okay. But at the federal level, that's what I, I say, rich.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: Rich in Oregon is much lower. And unfortunately, Oregon is one of a minority of states that have what we call state, S-T-A-T-E.
Speaker 3: State, E-S-T-H-T-E level tax. Oregon is one. Washington happens to be the other, but Oregon has the lowest. Mm-hmm. Meaning if you have 1 million and this is per person 1 million net worth at the time you pass away, then you don't have to pay Oregon estate tax. For every dollar over that net million, then it's subject to Oregon estate tax, and that tax is [00:10:00] progressive, starting at 10% and goes up to 16%.
Speaker 3: For example, if you have a $2 million estate and you're a single person, the first million is not exposed to Oregon's estate tax. The next million is. If we're just using round numbers, and I'm just saying 10%, but it's probably, maybe not 10%, but if that's a hundred thousand dollars tax,
Speaker 2: right.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's painful.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That can be painful, and you happen to live in a beautiful state of Oregon, but you also live in the state with the worst estate tax of the 50 states. When I started practicing 25 years ago, it was 600 or 650,000 was the threshold, both in Oregon. In the federal level, and Oregon has just ticked up a little bit, and I think it stopped around 2010.
Speaker 3: Federal has gone, I would say, astronomical compared to the uber wealthy, ultra rich. It's not astronomical, but Oregon has not budged off that million. I don't think it's gonna go anywhere depending on where you live in Oregon, even in other [00:11:00] parts of the non Portland metro area, a person can have one home and one retirement account.
Speaker 3: They can hit that million dollars. Easy.
Speaker 2: Easy.
Speaker 3: It's amazing. And it's an issue that is not gonna change every legislative cycle. There are bills to try to either eliminate Oregon's estate tax or to raise that exemption amount from a million to bring it up. And there are ways to plan to double it, but you need to see an attorney and you need to be married.
Speaker 3: And I don't suggest people, I joke. Then get married. If you wanna double and avoid text and double your exemption. It's just a joke. Yeah. But you have to take advantage of the opportunity. Now I have folks who unfortunately don't do it while they're married and after somebody has lost capacity or they're not married, you can't do it.
Speaker 3: I don't wanna scare people and say. See your attorney now. Mm-hmm. But it kind of is see your attorney now. [00:12:00] Exactly. It's better to plan.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Rather than do the emergency or the opportunity is lost and pay more later, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: Okay. Myth number four. Estate planning is for the wealthy.
Speaker 3: Everybody, in my opinion, can use an estate plan.
Speaker 3: It may not be that they need to think about tax planning, estate planning. But everyone, once they hit 18, can use an estate plan. Everyone can use a power of attorney. They could benefit from a financial power of attorney and a medical power of attorney. And when I say a medical power of attorney in Oregon, the specific term is an advanced directive.
Speaker 3: Folks, primary healthcare provider may say, have you filled out an advance directive? And folks may or may not have done it, but if they haven't done it, do it. Work with their attorney to do it because sometimes those documents are a bit complicated. Financial power of attorneys, I think many of us have heard of [00:13:00] them, but many of us have not done them and do them.
Speaker 3: And the reason for that is we never know when we might have an issue with incapacity. And if we have a situation where I call them red flag events where something happens that we didn't obviously expect them because it's an emergency. Then it's better to have those documents in place if we don't have them in place.
Speaker 3: Then the alternative is to go to court and get a person appointed by the court, and you can betcha that's thousands of dollars, maybe three to $5,000. Whoa. And for certain assets like an IRA, it's common for spouses to say, well, I'm the name beneficiary. It shouldn't be a problem. And that does not work. A spouse cannot direct an IRA to be liquidated.
Speaker 3: They don't own it. They were not the participant of that asset. If they are not named specifically in a financial power of attorney, that and many times specifically says that they have the power to manage an a qualified investment account or an [00:14:00] IRA. That institution may not recognize the power attorney.
Speaker 3: And for example, during COVID, it became common for me to work with parents and their college bound children. To prepare both of these documents because during C, some of of these college age children would be diagnosed with COID, and then the parents would have difficulty helping their children navigate the healthcare process or be able to talk with the doctors to help their children through the process.
Speaker 3: That was very hard. For young people who, for example, I had a young person was very into the sport of motocross and being injured and was in the hospital for a long time and did not have a financial power of attorney to help pay bills or to even talk to the HR department at his employers to help with getting the paycheck or filing for short-term disability through the HR department with their [00:15:00] employer.
Speaker 3: So it is very helpful. It doesn't matter what age you are.
Speaker 2: We've got one more. The fifth one, I did my estate plan. I don't need to think about it again.
Speaker 3: An estate plan is not like a crockpot. You do not set it and forget it. At minimum. I like my clients to think about their estate plan. Every three to five years.
Speaker 3: It may not mean that they actually make an appointment with me and take the time to review it, but darn it, I want them to do it at least 10 years. Yes, because there's probably major changes in the law or in their life, but triggering points that really should make them come in earlier than 10 years if that client became married or if they divorced.
Speaker 3: Or if the client, they're in a domestic partnership and they want that partner to be taken care of in their estate. But also if there's a domestic partnership, I probably wanna have a cohabitation agreement as well. So there's more to estate planning than just wills and trusts and powers of attorney.
Speaker 3: [00:16:00] Advanced directive. There's other pieces to it too, if there's child has died or if their children develop a substance abuse problem or grandchild has a substance abuse problem. Or a grandchild is born and has special needs, or if their named fiduciary is no longer around, has passed away, or if they have named their own sibling, and a sibling has also matured and is no longer an appropriate person or to do that type of work.
Speaker 3: There are reasons why an estate plan needs to be updated. Those are the key factors. The other one is if you're a business owner and you think you're ready to sell out or retire, if you can think about this five years in advance, talk to me because there's some work due diligence to do in getting a business ready, getting the tax returns ready, getting the corporate documents ready, getting valuations on the business ready.
Speaker 3: Also to think about how will it sell, what's that [00:17:00] structure look like? How is that money? What it, is it gonna be a big chunk at once? Are we gonna look at gifting some of that money to reduce the impact of the income coming in? It depends on the scenario when to come back to me.
Speaker 2: So Anastasia, this has been wonderful.
Speaker 2: Obviously people are gonna have questions. How can they get ahold of you?
Speaker 3: They can find my contact information at my website, which is a Y Meisner. Dot com.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for helping out and being a part of the Chamber of Commerce and everything you do. You sounds to me like you kind of helped the little guy out there, and I love that.
Speaker 2: And as I always like to close the show, don't forget, every day is a Chamber of Commerce Day. Here in Lake
Speaker: Oswego, the Lake Oswego Chamber of Commerce. Thanks you for listening to Business Lo. We would love to have you as a member so you can help Lake Oswego continue to be one of the best places to live, work, and play.
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